Human Claymore - Disgusting - all because oil tycoons prevent the evolution to cleaner energy
leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/thank-you-exxon-mayflower-arkansas-new-oil-lake/

Participant1 - Link won't work for me

Human Claymore - http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/thank-you-exxon-mayflower-arkansas-new-oil-lake/

Human Claymore - Does that work

Participant1 - Yep, shocking...

Human Claymore -  - Funny thing is the media has given this very little coverage

Participant2 - Fossil fuels need to go in general. Have you seen the Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com/ <--so much win

Human Claymore - Very nice. I understand quite a few non-gasoline vehicles have been created, but quickly bought up by the oil companies.
There are two major things we need to get rid of in today's America:
1. The use of fossil fuels
2. Lobbying

Participant2 - exactly. i'm starting to feel like an impatient optimist.

Human Claymore - I guess 3 really: unsafe foods, such as GMOs, should go as well. Did you know that over 1/3 of Americans suffer from gastrointestinal issues now? Things such as perforated bowels, Chrones Diseases and IBS have seen a drastic increase since the mass institution of GMOs; however Monsanto pretty much runs the FDA, so it'll continue

Participant2 -  if there's anyone that needs to take heroic doses of psilocybin and self reflect its those cunty people at monsanto. its a great thing that we can all be in real-time communication. because of us being well informed, messed up stuff can't go unnoticed ...See More

Human Claymore -  True. Pessimist that I am, I need to say that we're also at least tied for a point in time where they've been duped into believing they're less powerful than they are.
During the elections, I visited a lot of political message boards. I never posted. Just wanted to see what was being said. I was sickened and appalled to see the sheer mass of people who supported NDAA, SOPA, The Patriot Act and the like. There are a lot of people who still believe the government is working to protect us, and that these infringements on our basic rights are justified and welcomed, because they keep is safe.
It's both an inspiring time, and a sickening one

Participant2 -  Thinking about the Patriot Act and the NDAA is very disheartening, as you say. Especially, with people being under the impression that the gov is operating in the public interest. I respect the pessimistic view for its productive reasoning effects, for sure. I share your sentiments. It's up to us to progress to some kind of state where the corrupt government is obsolete. The more we know about tech/computation, the more power we have. I downloaded a lot of lectures on coding, algorithms, cryptology, ect. Im inspired to learn that stuff and show as much as I can to friends. Knowledge is literally power with computation. And the government is not as organized and on top of things as we might assume. Nevertheless, it is truly nauseating to see all of human rights taken away, and nobody doing a damn thing about it. What is you position on globalism? (I'm still evaluating it)

Human Claymore -   Globalism is one of those things I support in theory (like The Venus Project), but don't believe it'd work on practice. Human nature is to exert power and control over those you can, and Globalism would likely simply turn into a dictatorship.

Participant2 -  Y Yes. The Globalism thing seems tricky for exactly those reasons. I'd probably sound like a pie in the sky dreamer saying it would be nice if everyone's consciousness raised together, and people all contributed to the good of one another out of personal moral imperative...a collective consciousness and heightened sense of concern for one another. Perhaps when resources are no longer limited a natural elevation of consciousness will take place. In that case globalism looks like a great idea. But, if its under the death grip of an oppressive and exploitative force, what good is global doing us? This conversation reminds me of a Terence McKenna quote: "Well, if I were dependent on the notion that human institutions are necessary to pull us out of the ditch, I would be very despairing. As I said, nobody’s in charge – not the IMF, the Pope, the communist party, the Jews, no, no, no, nobody has their finger on what’s going on. So then, why hope? Isn’t it just a runaway train, out of control? I don’t think so. I think the out-of-controlness is the most hopeful thing about it! After all, whose control is it out of?! You and I never controlled it in the first place! Why are we anxious about the fact that it’s out of control? I think if it’s out of control, then our side is winning!"

Human Claymore -  Great quote. I'd never heard that before.
I tell you, I'm truly curious to see how the world will react when the total economic collapse happens (I don't even consider it an "if" anymore). Will we adapt a utopian idea like The Venus Project? Will we be so far removed from self worth without monetary value that most will perish? Or will we simply switch gears and create a new currency backing to start the whole process over again?
I both hope I'm alive to see it, and long gone before it happens. I'd be lying if I said it didn't scare me as much as it excited me

Participant2 -  I don't think that the english language contains the syntax to describe how awesome McKenna is. I listen to him for hours and hours. Ah cool, I never heard of The Venus Project. Watching the video of it right now.

Human Claymore -  It's a beautiful dream. I'd love to see it come to pass, but...human nature...

Participant2 -   So far it looks great. Its perfectly in sync with the transhumanism push. I was discussing the human nature thing with my friend in Plano. I was basically making the case that the bad parts of human nature arise because of resources being limited. If we could make energy free, and have sophisticated robots to do everything, and fully immersive digital reality that can give you the experience of any situation your imagination can conjure up...it may not obliterate the cunty part of human nature altogether, but will certainly take the wind out its sails. Ah, I'm 15 min into the video, and they seem to be making that point. talking about money and debt...

Participant2 -  wow. Venus Project sounds great! I am all for it if we can make it work.

Brother of Human Claymore -  Human nature is a bullshit cop-out and epigenetics proves that

Brother of Human Claymore -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36HquPzdxf4

Human Claymore -  History and present proves human nature

Brother of Human Claymore -  A very limited viewpoint proves human nature. Modern science says it is the environment that ultimately creates what you are referring to as human nature

Human Claymore -  How else could we see the same pattern repeat time and time again? It's not my nature, but the fact remains, someone would try to take power, and most people would let it happen.
History shows this: Alexander, Caesar, Hitler, varied English kings, Khan, Bush/Obama, etc...no studies will erase what has happened and will happen. History speaks for itself

Brother of Human Claymore -  Because the global system hasn't changed

Human Claymore -  I call BS. Those names I just listed come from as varied an environment as you could dream of

Human Claymore -  No, and the global system is accepted and continued by humans refusing to change it, thus it's driven by human nature. Most will be sheep, some will be rebellious and some will try to lead and conquer.

Brother of Human Claymore -  When you can actually physically see the genetic change caused by environment, you can no longer claim nature. All of those systems had tiered classes anf money, amongst other common poisons.

I'm not arguing opinions. Do the research and you'll see what I mean.

Human Claymore -  I did the research, hence my argument. History shows it repeats itself. It shows people are unwilling to share off oppressive systems in trade for their comfort. The argument of why is really irrelevant. Our very nature perpetuates the why, thus it's another symptom of nature.
I'm not saying I like it, but I'm a history buff. I've read the books and see the patterns. The patterns never change. Call it nature or environment. Whatever you wish. It's all synonymous of the same actions, consequences and results. The name you give it matters little if the worldwide populous refuses to change it

Brother of Human Claymore -  How in any way can that be perceived as nature when the environment hasn't changed?
History is being proven wrong by science

Participant2 -   no doubt. biological entities are enormously adaptable. in the video it talks about taking a cognitive gene out of the mice, and raising them in an enriched environment to watch them overcome the deficit. and this is just the natural organism doing this of its own efficacy. add to that an ability to customize genes by infusing them with computation like is in the news recently, and we got a situation that puts me back at thoroughgoing optimism. i watched zeigeist 1 and 2 a while back; they were really effective at showing a perspective that most people had never seen. I saw Peter Joseph on the Joe Rogan Podcast. He's very articulate and succinct about his viewpoint. This part 3 looks insightful as well. This optimism phenomenon just hit me in the past couple of months. Its based on 2 things: 1. [From Peter Diamandis book "Abundance: The Future is Better Than You Think"] The amygdala in our brains usurps our attention whenever there is potential danger in the environment. Mass media culture makes use of this by always presenting danger, since its the quickest way to capture and hold your attention. After being thoroughly immersed in this all while we were growing up, theres like this constant negativity hanging always in the back of our minds. and 2. There's so many different revolutions going on at once right now: biotcech, nanotech, artificial intelligence, robotics, etc. As they start to converge, there is going to be a massive leap in our evolution. I have heard it stated as: the difference between us now and what we will evolve into in the next couple of decades is a greater leap than the leap we made from primitive homo sapiens to cultural groups with language. I heard Ray Kurzweil advocate trying make technology advance faster so that there is less opportunity for bad stuff to happen between now and the singluarity. Currently, I'm tending to agree.


Brother of Human Claymore -  Epigenetics shows that if you change the environment, you change the human.
Problem has always been that we have been kept just comfortable enough to not look to change too drastically, but current understanding now makes it so we are only waiting for a big enough catastrophe to warrant the change. Hence why I cannot wait for the impending global economic collapse.

Participant2 -  Totally. I am in favor of radical change for sure. Learning how to run these machines, and learn as much as we can about computation can present us with an opportunity to be a part of the solution, I think. As far as the economy goes, I'm really liking bitcoin. I have a little stack of them. What would be really awesome is if massive amounts of people all over the world started using them, and people like us got in on the currency early, making trading stations or bank style websites for them...I believe we could push fiat currencies into obsolescence. Bitcoin is pure fucking genius. It is decentralized, very easy to make anonymous, and there will only ever be 21 million of them. This is cool because they can be traded in fractions of bitcoins, like 1/1000th. So, with temporary slips along the way, it has no way to go except to become more valuable. Have you looked into it yet? What is your perspective on it?

Human Claymore -   Brother of Human Claymore, because nature created and perpetuated the environment. Also, the Mongol Horde wasn't under the same system.
Like I said, the economic collapse scares and excites me. As a parent, it scares me because people will freak out, there will be murders on a high scale. It'll turn much of the world into a ghetto mentality...until we move past the initial panic.
That's the part that excites me. Nature or not, humans also insist on persevering, and we will. The collapse will initially weed out those who know no other way to survive. The remaining population will rebuild. Hopefully while keeping past mistakes in mind

Participant2 -  What ur saying makes good sense Human Claymore. I need to keep this stuff in mind too because I seem to be flying off into delusional optimism lately.


Brother of Human Claymore -  Is it that the first humans were acting through nature, or is that what their environment lead them to?

Participant2 -  What do you think about the theory of primates eating mushrooms and evolving into humans?

Human Claymore -   What I'm saying is I believe environment, in the human world, is driven by nature. Our nature drove us to establish systems of trade, governments, class tiers, etc (note how almost everything we created in our environment is a means to establish a hierarchy). We weren't driven to because the cave life inspired us to.
Our environment is derived from our nature, and our nature is to overcome, control, create, build and possess.
Again, Khan throws the tiered economy environment system out the window. They didn't have that, yet were still driven to take control. Nature.

I hadn't heard that theory, Participant1. I'll need to look it up.

Brother of Human Claymore -  Not saying the tiered system is the only consistent poison in the system. There are very many constants. But to me it isn't even something that can be argued when you can actually physically see the changes in genetic structure caused by various environmental changes.


Brother of Human Claymore -  Personally I am partial to the stardust theory since it is the closest I know of to having concrete evidence, but even that still doesn't have anything too solid.

Participant2 -  What do you mean by "tiered system"? And, are you suggesting that there's some ethereal element to our existence that didnt form as a direct result of environment? If so what is the evidence? Forgive my ignorance. I need to learn what you guys are talking about.

Brother of Human Claymore -  Not sure which one of us you're asking, but I pretty much meant classes of people. I'm guessing the second part was directed at Human Claymore
Tuesday at 3:02pm · Like

Brother of Human Claymore -  As for the stardust having the most concrete evidence:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/09/nasa-finds-dna-components-in-meteorites-says-they-originated-in/

Participant2 -  Ah, ok. If you are discussing a Marxist classless, cashless society I'm all for it. I've recently been labeled as Karl Marx reincarnated by one of my professors because I really believe that technology will make cashless and classless society feasible and eminent. As far as the second part, regardless of what human nature is...we can change it. Not only can we change it by going to a new environment and adapting to it...we can change it by programming the DNA to custom specifications. Am I saying anything disagreeable to either of you here?

Brother of Human Claymore -  I think you and I are on the same page


Participant2 -  Nice video. I had no idea they found amino acids on meteors. That is going to be an interesting topic to bring up when things get theological.